Curse

- Tain - · Feb 29, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

+100 armor is about 83% damage reduction - it's pretty much the key here.

Racthoh · Mar 01, 2008, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyros

Does work without the SY spam? or is that the main defense in this build?

Alternatively dual Defensive Anthem if you don't have the necessary faction for "Save Yourselves!". However the more physicals you have the weaker DA becomes, so really SY is pretty much necessary.

blue.rellik · Mar 01, 2008, 06:15 AM // 06:15

There's Nothing To Fear!

Shaz · Mar 01, 2008, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyros

Does work without the SY spam? or is that the main defense in this build?

In this build, yes, it is pretty much the main defense. I mean, you dedicated 2 skills to it just so you can spam SY and one of which is an elite, so I'd say it's pretty important. Of course there is also TNTF like blue said, but that's only on half of the time.

Could work without it if you can chain TNTF with another paragon and use WY/shield up I guess. But there will be a bit less room for error, as in you can't over aggro as much as if you were running SY. Because that damage reduction isn't compare to what a TNTF/SY can reduce.

But I would recommend getting SY, even at rank 1 with just 3 seconds, it still works. And that's just 50k faction donated.

DarkSpirit · Mar 01, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

The main problem I have with this build is when fighting the Charrs in HM. Aegis and AoE attacks own this build, although the hex heavy version helps alittle there.

It is a highly offensive build but once certain character falls, the entire team can fall apart. For example, if the player (SY spammer and TNTF) dies then your main defense is gone. If Melonni dies, you lose OOP and Dark Fury which is the backbone.

itsvictor · Mar 01, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Move out of the MS please. TNTF and SY up, nothing should die, it's your monks to be blamed. D/N oop and stuff is better replaced with N/RT running SS+barbs+MoP+Splinter Weapon+Ancestor's rage(if you have melee in your group) You need enchant removal, I know it's blasphemy when you need enchant removal in PvE. Motivation skills like finale of restoration, signet of synergy, song of restoration please. You have so many chants going around, nothing should be dying. It's not the build's fault(most of the time), it's you.

DarkSpirit · Mar 01, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsvictor

Move out of the MS please. TNTF and SY up, nothing should die, it's your monks to be blamed. D/N oop and stuff is better replaced with N/RT running SS+barbs+MoP+Splinter Weapon+Ancestor's rage(if you have melee in your group) You need enchant removal, I know it's blasphemy when you need enchant removal in PvE. Motivation skills like finale of restoration, signet of synergy, song of restoration please. You have so many chants going around, nothing should be dying. It's not the build's fault(most of the time), it's you.

I have no problem moving my Paragon out of MS or Fire storm, but I dont have time to micro manage my heroes and attack/protect at the same time. I brought Mhenlo, Aidan, Zho, and Herta as recommended.

Interesting that you should bring up the fact that there is no enchant removal in this build. Also if Melonni is running around to avoid attacks and AoE, dark fury is not cast that often which effects the frequency of my SY. Your suggestion may work, I have not tried it, but it would be changing the build.

Not saying this is a bad build, I have vanquished areas with it but I wouldn't recommend it for Dalada Uplands HM (against charr groups with Flameshielders and Prophets) as it is.

Racthoh · Mar 01, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

The main problem I have with this build is when fighting the Charrs in HM. Aegis and AoE attacks own this build, although the hex heavy version helps alittle there.

It's Ignite Arrows more than anything. That skill wrecks the AI so hard. Aegis is a contributor for sure if it gets up, in which case I would use two monks instead of one. Use Zho, and call the Flameshielders while you attack the warriors. If there are two of them, it might be a problem. Also consider Defensive Anthem on one of the two heroes.

This is where the max rank ebon ward really helps; +25 damage on everything really makes a difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsvictor

D/N oop and stuff is better replaced with N/RT running SS+barbs+MoP+Splinter Weapon+Ancestor's rage(if you have melee in your group)

Spiteful Spirit is terrible in this build. Barbs is going to accomplish the same thing as Order of Pain, except it's a hex and can be removed. I also lose Dark Fury, which is a lot of the defense and offense. Mark of Pain causes the AoE scatter and takes way too long to recharge.

Splinter Weapon + Ancestor's Rage are good, but adding them means I have to bring a second monk.

The D/N is used for its ability to provide healing and offensive support and unlike Necromancers doesn't need the battle to be going well to pump out spells. Mysticism + Arcane Zeal means he can maintain his support regardless of how the fight is going. If I wanted more damage I would bring something that is useful for dealing damage to the targets that matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsvictor

You need enchant removal, I know it's blasphemy when you need enchant removal in PvE.

I just bring Dazed, and Dazed whatever puts up enchantments that might cause a problem. If Stunning Strike isn't fast enough, I'll use Spear Swipe.

DarkSpirit · Mar 01, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

It's Ignite Arrows more than anything. That skill wrecks the AI so hard. Aegis is a contributor for sure if it gets up, in which case I would use two monks instead of one. Use Zho, and call the Flameshielders while you attack the warriors. If there are two of them, it might be a problem. Also consider Defensive Anthem on one of the two heroes.

This is where the max rank ebon ward really helps; +25 damage on everything really makes a difference.

Yes I did see 2 Flameshielders in the group that I encountered just outside Doomlore Shrine so it was hard to get Zho to interrupt their Aegis. I also tried with Lina instead of Aidan, it was better but not exactly smooth sailing either. I will try a DA build on Hayda.

My vangard rank is only 3 at the moment, but I will also try replacing the standard of honor with standard of courage for more defense which is really needed against AoE attacks since heroes and henchies tend to clump together.

Quote:

I just bring Dazed, and Dazed whatever puts up enchantments that might cause a problem. If Stunning Strike isn't fast enough, I'll use Spear Swipe.

Thanks Racthoh. Also, do you think an enchant removal would be useful in this situation?

Racthoh · Mar 01, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Thanks Racthoh. Also, do you think an enchant removal would be useful in this situation?

Multiple copies of Aegis is limited just to those groups but definately worth speccing your bar against.

Spear of Redemption -> Mirror of Disenchantment. Disable and micro as necessary.

Mitchel · Mar 02, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

I got me and my party rolled by Mandragor guys in Grothmar. Maybe I should've given someone Anthem of Guidance, because their blocking was a bitch.

VendingMachine · Mar 02, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

I have a question, do you use the hero to maintain AR for you and them?

blue.rellik · Mar 03, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

I have a question, do you use the hero to maintain AR for you and them?

If you're a paragon yourself then just spam 'TNTF', at lvl 12 Leadership it can refresh AR.

If not then you'll need to constantly cast anthem of flame or something though this gets troublesome and slows down your party since one member is stuck behind chanting and can even end up missing out party members all together. For that reason, I've subbed 'They're On Fire!' onto one of the heroes since it's instant activation and short recharge, though not as good as with some SF eles, the use of anthem of flame and blazing spear does help

Washi · Mar 03, 2008, 10:28 AM // 10:28

It's a great build, but there are areas where it fails. Raptors totally own me with their blocking, I cant keep SY up and my paragons deal no damage, I dunno how to overcome this.

And there is one more funny thing, I was farming Norn points this weekend and whenever I encountered centaurs Kahmu was just randomly dying. I was like WTF. And then I saw that damn stupid Symbiosis spirit. It gives your derv huge health boost due to his enchants, then he sacs some huge amount of hp, and when you kill the spirit he just dies LOL.

blue.rellik · Mar 03, 2008, 11:55 AM // 11:55

[skill]Mirror of Disenchantment[/skill]

Washi · Mar 03, 2008, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Well it's pretty damn expensive but I guess I could put it on morghan or hayda and see how it works. thx

Racthoh · Mar 03, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

It's a great build, but there are areas where it fails. Raptors totally own me with their blocking, I cant keep SY up and my paragons deal no damage, I dunno how to overcome this.

Yup, this will get stomped there pretty hard when they all put Critical Defenses up. Riven Earth, Sparkfly Swamp and Alcazia Tangle were all areas that I went with a different setup (two curse necros with two enchantment removals each) because of the number of troublesome enchantments. Alcazia Tangle was more because of the Quetzal.

The best thing you can do as the paragon in those situations is to call one target, and constantly swap targets onto a fresh raptor that doesn't have Critical Defenses up. This gives you some time, albeit not much, to maintain the SY while everyone else works on the called targets.

Quote:

And there is one more funny thing, I was farming Norn points this weekend and whenever I encountered centaurs Kahmu was just randomly dying. I was like WTF. And then I saw that damn stupid Symbiosis spirit. It gives your derv huge health boost due to his enchants, then he sacs some huge amount of hp, and when you kill the spirit he just dies LOL.

Kahmu was at 60 DP for those areas. ><

VendingMachine · Mar 04, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

If you're a paragon yourself then just spam 'TNTF', at lvl 12 Leadership it can refresh AR.

If not then you'll need to constantly cast anthem of flame or something though this gets troublesome and slows down your party since one member is stuck behind chanting and can even end up missing out party members all together. For that reason, I've subbed 'They're On Fire!' onto one of the heroes since it's instant activation and short recharge, though not as good as with some SF eles, the use of anthem of flame and blazing spear does help

I don't really like to use "TNTF" because that it has a long recharge and sometime you may encounter a battle before it recharges. Also that it cost a quite a bit of energy.

blue.rellik · Mar 04, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

I don't really like to use "TNTF" because that it has a long recharge and sometime you may encounter a battle before it recharges. Also that it cost a quite a bit of energy.

A paragon with energy problems? Did you even bother with the maths? By the time the TNTF recharges and at 12 leadership, the paragon should have regained the energy again.

NecroticChanter · Mar 04, 2008, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Bah!! Why does every1 target the derv first? >.<